Plumbers: What’s the Difference Between PR and Marketing?

Paul Benton: If you’re a plumber or friend in the trades, you’re in the right place. What is the real difference between marketing and public relations, and how does that matter to your plumbing company? I’m joined at the table today by Saul Markowitz. He’s president and founder of Markowitz Communications, a highly respected national PR firm.

Paul Benton: Saul has represented major national brands including PetSmart, HBO, Cirque du Soleil, Dave & Buster’s, and Krispy Kreme. He has spent more than three decades helping organizations earn attention uh, shape public perception, manage crises, and tell stories people actually remember. Saul, welcome to the Plumber Marketing Success Podcast.

Saul Markowitz: Thanks. So great seeing you again, Paul.

Paul Benton: Saul, so I’m a marketer, you are a PR expert and a marketer, and what we wanna learn today is what is the difference between marketing and PR, and what, how does that matter to a home service company? You recently worked with a home service company and got it mentioned in USA Today.

Paul Benton: So w- why don’t we just start with PR 101? What is public relations, and how is it different from marketing and advertising?

Saul Markowitz: I think of it, you know, it’s interesting. My career has been kind of a integrated marketing PR guy, ’cause I worked on so many nonprofits in the past. So when you work with nonprofits, you have to do everything.

Saul Markowitz: So it’s always been like, you know, uh, it- it, PR and marketing was always separated out. It was the marketing director was here, the PR director was here, you know, development was here. So, uh, my big thing on the PR side was I always kind of try to explain to people, including my family, who has no idea what I do for a living.

Saul Markowitz: So they never understand. You know, I’m sure you’re the same way, right, Paul? Marketing, I can do that. So anyways, right? I have a friend that does that stuff. But on the PR side, we kind of tell people that I’m a storyteller. That’s really the easiest way to say it. I mean, PR people are storytellers, and good PR people actually work very closely with marketing people to, to build the story.

Saul Markowitz: So it’s not just PR alone, it’s PR with a team usually. You know, they’re trying to come up with a, a integrated marketing PR campaign that works very closely together to make the story really hit. So, um, so on the PR side, a lot of the stuff that we work with, you know, I’ll say, this is a quick way if I kind of explain it too.

Saul Markowitz: Usually it used to be that they, especially in the nonprofits, they would give you the budget. “So what’s the budget gonna be this year?” “Uh, marketing budget will be $250,000. That will include some advertising, some direct mail.” Then the, the PR person, “We’re gonna give you 10 grand. That’ll be good for you to to find a way to come up with a creative promotion if at all possible.”

Saul Markowitz: Most of the stuff you’re doing is a lot of media relations work, so it’s really your contacts that you have. So, so we will, um, you’re already getting a salary, or you’re getting a rete- whatever it is. You know, if it’s a, if I was working for them, you have a salary already. So now you really don’t need that budget much, ’cause all you’re gonna be doing is, um, pitching away and coming up with promotional ideas that may get some press for you too.

Saul Markowitz: That doesn’t really work as well anymore. So now it’s like, you know, especially in this economy, the idea of working with someone like you, Paul, together, we work together and we come up with a really good plan that, that ties into the PR side. So it tells the story even better. So, um, so I was, used to be, difference is PR doesn’t have much of a budget, and marketing is that’s what that used to be our, our little joke on the PR side is like, we have to be as creative as possible, and that’s it.

Saul Markowitz: But now with the marketing people, too, and Paul, we’ve worked together, and just so you guys, this guy is pretty amazing. And so, um, that we’ve learned in the past that even though you don’t have much of a budget doesn’t mean you can’t be creative, ’cause you can always be creative. And so it makes you think a little bit more.

Paul Benton: So would one day, one way to be answering this is that you as a PR expert are thinking about storytelling and brand, that’s one half of your brain, and then the other half is who do I know or how can I get to know them to place that story in, um, uh, what is called Earned media. It’s e- e- it’s, it- you’re not paying for that placement.

Paul Benton: You’re earning the right to be in a newspaper story. You’re convincing journalists

Saul Markowitz: To do the story for us, but making it easy for them. See, that’s the other secret too on the PR side is our job is to make it easy for them to do the story. So, you know, we’re very proud at, at Markowitz Communications, I’m really pr- I love my staff, and the idea there is our job is, you know, we, we don’t pitch every story.

Saul Markowitz: We only pitch stories that we truly believe are good stories that people are gonna be interested in. Just like the story we just did USA Today also with, with, uh, Burns & Scarrow. You know, there was, and I can explain it to, to you guys in a little bit, but the idea a, a good PR is, you know, we’re not hacks like people think.

Saul Markowitz: PR people are h- they’re not. We don’t spin. The whole spinning thing means you’re making it up and lying. We don’t lie either. We tell the story. We tell the truth, the story. That’s what it is. And so, so what we look for is that different type of story, something that … You know, if it’s a local story, fine. If it’s just like it’s a grand opening of something or somebody, okay, that’s a nice local story.

Saul Markowitz: That’s great and everything, but there’s so many people out there pitching that same story. So our goal is to pitch it differently and try to find a different angle to it if at all possible. But then as I’m looking over at Paul right now, I’m thinking, “Okay, if we get this story, wouldn’t it be nice if we could put it on social media and then he can take over on the marketing side and play with it a little bit?”

Saul Markowitz: So he can then boost it up for us, uh, do some digital advertising around it. See, that’s how it all works, ’cause as we know it’s changed in the last … You know, I’ve been doing this for a long time, and, um, so, um- Mm-hmm … I’m the one that pitched, uh, Moses when he did the tablet thing. We actually I’m kidding.

Saul Markowitz: That’s how old I am. We actually pitched that story years ago. So, you know. That’s funny. I said to him, I said to him, “Burning, burning bush, a bit much, but that’s okay. We’ll, we’ll figure it out.” But the, uh, but the idea is how do you combine our efforts, right? And we’ve done this in the past. Mm-hmm. How do you combine our efforts when it comes to, uh, if

Saul Markowitz: We always say the best press release that you could send out is a good clip. You know, a clip is the greatest press release ’cause someone else wrote the story for you. So it’s not just us kind of, “Here you go. Here’s the story.” Try if we can get somebody else to actually write a story about it, we can then take that story and go, “Hey, we didn’t write it, but they were so interested in our story that they were willing to write their own story about it.”

Saul Markowitz: And now it becomes so legit because it’s almost like, and we’ve said this in the past too, it’s almost like when you go to a restaurant and they say, um, “We have the best pizza,” I don’t believe you. But if Paul, if you said to me, “That’s the best pizza,” I’m going. See, that’s the point. And so that’s what we look for all the time in the PR side is what’s the story?

Paul Benton: Excellent. And you, uh, l- let’s drill down a little bit. You just had a success with a national roofer. You got n- a national article in USA Today. Can you tell us about, uh, well, can you tell us about who that company is- Okay … and how your process was to get them- Sure … that

Saul Markowitz: kind

Paul Benton: of media coverage? Of

Saul Markowitz: course.

Saul Markowitz: Yeah, definitely. So they’re actually a company that’s been around for 70 years in Pittsburgh. They also do work outside. They have an office in Columbus. They do things all over the country. They’re one of the top roofing companies actually in the country, so, um, but the s- here’s the story. So they brought us in to help promote their 70th anniversary.

Saul Markowitz: So they’ve been around for 70. That’s pretty great, 70 years. But as we went to their office to talk to these people, it turns out that they’re also changing over, uh, the presidency is m- uh, the, the, it’s all kind of moving over. It’s, it’s a third generation now family business. You don’t see much of that.

Saul Markowitz: So I’m thinking, okay, that’s interesting too, but there has to be more to that. So we’re always kind of digging down deep to find out what is that angle that’s gonna really work? What’s the human interesty side? Like, what’s gonna make Joe, Joe Blow from Erie, PA wanna, wanna learn more about a company that’s in Pittsburgh?

Saul Markowitz: So, so as we went to the office, uh, sitting around a, a table with these guys, so it started out with the grandfather first. He then put the company in the hands of his son, who was there, right? His son is now semi-retiring. He’s not really retiring. He’s still gonna be there as the, as the president of the company.

Saul Markowitz: He then handed it off to his youngest son, who’s now gonna be the CEO of the company. So now we’re, um, I meant the president of the company. His father’s gonna stay on as CEO. So, so now we have a third generation at 70 years. So the thought of our, in our heads, does that happen often? Like, who can I talk to, to…

Saul Markowitz: So I, you know, I talked to, to one of our favorite business reporters and said How would you do this story? Like, I’m, I’m gonna tell you a story. This is 70 years in business. Okay, there’s a lot of places that have celebrated anniversaries. That’s pretty great. But this is a third generation. And he said to me, he goes, “It never…

Saul Markowitz: You don’t see third generations happening.” Usually what happens is the g- the, the grandfather started the business, gave it to his son, and then suddenly his son, his, his son goes, “Ah, I’m not into this. It’s not my thing.” And then they sell it. That’s very different with this story. This- He’s been… His son is actually was, um, he worked in the warehouse starting when he was like 12, 13 years old, learning the business from his dad.

Saul Markowitz: Okay, so now we have this great story about the history and, and how it’s all kinda come together. But then as we’re talking to, uh, some of their employees or team members from their, uh, their place, they sat in a conference room with us and told us, um, “We’ve been here for 30 years, and we’re training the next generation to do what we do.”

Saul Markowitz: You know, they, you know, the accounting person who’s been there forever is now saying, “I’m bringing in a younger person so I can teach them.” So it just continues. And the best part about this story, too, and it, if you read kind of the, the story that we actually wrote for the media, we kind of handed them a nice feature-y story type press release.

Saul Markowitz: It wasn’t a this, this, this. It was like, “Here’s a human interest story for you.” As we’re walking around the hallways, we notice there are these big pictures of different employees. It turns out every f- if someone stays for 15 years at this company, they blow up a huge picture of this person, and they honor them in the hallway The whole place is filled with these pictures everywhere.

Saul Markowitz: So you see, like, so we kind of started the whole story about, like, what is this 15… What are these pictures doing up? So the, so the dedication of this place, so it’s not the same old roofing company now. And, and the other part of it, too, is what are you doing for your community? That’s something I would love to talk to the plumbers who watch this, too, is you can get stories if you can say something, what, what good things are you do- Are you, are you helping the vets?

Saul Markowitz: Are you donating your service? I’m sure they all are. Are you donating your services to your community? We said the same thing to the Burns & Scalo people. We’re like, “What do you do for the community?” Because people love those stories. You know, giving back is, is, especially now and what’s happening with the economy these days and, and always looking for, like, the what is the crap store?

Saul Markowitz: What’s the… How mean can we get here? Like, what is the next thing? We don’t do that kind of stuff. We’re, we’re looking for those happy, you know, you know, we always say the crying moments sometimes, like the, what’s… something you’ve given back and, um, and most times you do it and you don’t want anyone knowing about it, but there’s other events you may be doing on a certain special day, Veterans Day or whatever it is, and you’re doing.

Saul Markowitz: And so we were able to pitch the story to USA Today by writing up a release that actually was very featurey. So I explained everything I’m saying right now was in the release. It talks about the 15 years. It talks about the son when he was 13 years old in the, in the warehouse learning, and his dad was not that easy on him.

Saul Markowitz: He said, “One day if you’re, this is… If you want to learn about roofing, you’re going up there with the rest of the staff and you’re gonna learn when it’s 100 degrees out what it’s like to put a roof on.” And he did that, and he learned hands-on from his family what it was like to actually run this business.

Saul Markowitz: So he’s ready, he was ready for it now. So now we have third, now three generations. We have people who have stayed there forever. You know, we have, like, this whole… And then the other thing is what’s happening with infrastructure now around the country with, uh, with, um, you know, everyone needs a good roof, but the infrastructure, they…

Saul Markowitz: We picked Pittsburgh. I said, “What’s happening in Pittsburgh with global warming and, and the weather is changing all the time?” So, you know, we kind of use them as the experts to talk about that, too, while they’re talking about their anniversary. So now we mixed them all together. So now what, it’s not an advertorial.

Saul Markowitz: You never want your story to sound like it’s an ad, ’cause in, in the PR game, we, media, they don’t like the idea of it sounding like it’s an ad. They’re not gonna do the story for you. It has to be a real angle to it, and this one had a real angle to it. I mean, it’s-

Paul Benton: And, and this is by definition PR. This is not, you didn’t, this is not paid placement.

Paul Benton: No. Oh.

Saul Markowitz: This

Paul Benton: is- No … a persuading-

Saul Markowitz: This is it …

Paul Benton: editorial to cover- This is it … you as newsworthy.

Saul Markowitz: You have to picture the scene in your head of what it’s gonna look like. Or TV. We do a lot of TV also. We do a lot of, it’s a little bit of everything. But the idea there is, is, um, you got to picture the story.

Saul Markowitz: Th-think of yourself watching TV or listening to the radio or you’re online, ’cause everyone reads their, their stuff online these days, too. So, um, so you got to picture the story, like, “Would I be interested in that?” Is that something I would actually be interested in? And we think of that all the time, like, and if, and if I’m reading this story and I’m going, wait a minute, there must be something else we can put into the story to make it more interesting.

Saul Markowitz: That’s it.

Paul Benton: It used to be that PR, that you’re just describing, was hugely a val- uh, uh, valuable because it would create a buzz. It would create word of mouth. It would create brand recognition. All of that is still true today, but there’s one other element which is in my marketer’s domain, which is the large language models love that.

Paul Benton: So your marketing agencies will be working hard on SEO, search engine optimization, and other strategies to get your website and your, um… Yeah, they might be, there might be placements in Reddit and LinkedIn and other places, but, um, none of them really beat the domain strength of large organizations like USA Today and The Wall Street Journal- It does help

Paul Benton: and The New York Times, and you, and you can’t really easily buy your way into- You can’t … that. No. Um, you have to persuade yourself. That’s why it’s called earned- Media … media, and when you have that place- placement, then ChatGPT and Claude will begin to read and know about you because of that third-party authoritative territory that you saw are able to fashion.

Paul Benton: That’s hugely valuable, and that’s where PR really adds value to marketing, um, and that’s why we cheer you on.

Saul Markowitz: Thank you. It’s taking that story, and then you gotta think of yourself as a, you have a teammate next door. I’m sitting next to you here, Paul. We n- we n- we think in our heads, now, okay, how are our clients gonna take these stories and use it?

Saul Markowitz: Okay, I would rather have a really great story from USA Today to hand off to my digital marketing team, right? People like you. I would rather buy that than spend all this money buying TV advertising. I really would. I think it makes more sense, ’cause it’s a real story. You know, it’s a real thing. Somebody wrote that st- USA Today was willing to do a story about our company

Saul Markowitz: Take advantage of it. I mean, use it as much as you can. It’s, it makes a br- it’s a much nicer brochure, don’t you think?

Paul Benton: Uh, y- absolutely. So help us understand the process. So you wrote a press release. What did you do then? Um-

Saul Markowitz: Okay,

Paul Benton: I- Put it in the envelope and mail it? No. I mean, how did … That’s surely what

Saul Markowitz: did you do.

Saul Markowitz: Well, I … That was a long time ago, wasn’t it? Anyways, like, yeah, I remember that. That’s funny. Like, it used to be years ago when I was like … I’ve told you I’m old. So years ago that used to be that, yes, you, you put your little sticky labels on the envelope with all the reporters that you have, and then you put it in an envelope, and then you send them out.

Saul Markowitz: And then our big thing was always pick up the phone. I’ve, I learned that in my career from some of my mentors. Pick up the damn phone and call people, which I’ll say to everyone here, too. Don’t wait for anything. Never wait for anything. If you really want the story, if you really wanna get it done, you pick up the phone and you talk to people, and that’s what we do.

Saul Markowitz: So used to be send out the, all the releases, you boom, you wait. P- well, some PR people just wait, “Oh, I hope they read it.” There’s no waiting for anything. You know, anything in business, I’m sure the plumbers out there, you know, I’m sure they’re, they’re not just sitting by the phones going, “Oh, I hope they like me,” you know?

Saul Markowitz: So that’s why they bring you in, to make sure some people know who to pop this stuff, you know, and that’s, that’s the idea. So, so no, we, the new way of doing it now is we actually create, you know, we, we, we get as much r- uh, we do as much research as possible with our client. You know, Mike, who works with, we, we sit down with them, we look for fun facts.

Saul Markowitz: Remember, we talked about this in the past too, Paul. Looking for the fun facts, looking for something that’s gonna make this release different than anything else that they’re gonna get, ’cause I think releases are somewhat overrated anyways. I think the idea of picking up the phone and, and emailing people and reaching out to reporters, knowing what their a- what, what type of stories these certain reporters know, that’s something we’ve studied up through the years.

Saul Markowitz: We know who writes what, and we have an idea which are the right reporters. But-

Paul Benton: Okay, so it, I’ve heard two things. One, you’re a storyteller- Yes … so you have to understand what makes a good story. Yep. You have, are a, need to understand brand, what is the identity of the client. Yep. But then you also need to know people.

Paul Benton: You do. So you need to know your reporter contacts. Always. How do you cultivate those and d- so you’ve, you’ve f- if say I’m a, uh, plumbing company and I’ve just hired you- Yes … and you have now developed the story, now you’ve written the re- release, how exactly do you take the next step? Do you, you have a Rolodex and you, and you pitch it?

Saul Markowitz: Uh, it’s all in my head. No. Actually, we, we use a, we use Meltwater too. There’s a company called Meltwater which actually h- will help you. You know, we have our own contacts, but this will actually help us build more of a li- like, if we know it’s for plumbing, we can actually put in, let’s look for a reporter that’s done stories about plumbing.

Saul Markowitz: You know, wherever the, wherever the market is. I mean, there was, as you said, we’re, there was a point where we handled the, uh, um, the PR for PetSmart nationally. And so every year they would come- Mm … and I love those guys over there. N- every year nationally they would say to us, corporately they’d say, “These are our hot markets for the year.

Saul Markowitz: So this year we wanna go after San Diego, we wanna do Cleveland, we wanna do Miami,” whatever it was, the five hot markets for pets that, that, uh… And so, you know, we would actually do our research and we would actually, uh, we start, used to start by calling, like, the convention visitors bureaus or call another PR firm in that market.

Saul Markowitz: We all kinda know each other, you know? We all work together. And say, “I have this new client, we’re trying to reach the pet market in, in San Diego.” Who should we talk to? We would do that, or then we would also make a list of the, of the major media and then just call the newsrooms and say, “Who would do, who’s your features editor?

Saul Markowitz: Who does, you know, do you have a reporter that handles pets?” Usually, it depends. I mean, even on the plumbing side, there, there’s, it depends what the story’s gonna be. So it could be, is it, is it featurey? Is it more businessy? Are you opening a new shop? Are you… It all depends on the story. And so what we do now is we use a lot of the contacts that we already have and, and like they said, we would like to start out in Pittsburgh and Columbus, where they have office sp- offices, to start pitching there, which we did and we got some nice stuff for them.

Saul Markowitz: And then, and then we said, “Well, wouldn’t it be kinda cool if we can reach everyone by doing a nice national story for you guys?” Which they haven’t really had much of that. So you know, we started out pretty quickly. You know, and we have a really, we have some really good contacts on the national side. So, so, uh, Mike and I thought this, we have a reporter we think might be somewhat interested in this, this thing.

Saul Markowitz: And it, and it worked. So, um, and then once we have the names of the reporters, you know, we have the release ready to rock and, and it used to be, we don’t even mail them anymore, so it’s all emailable. And, um, and then, but the important part of this whole thing is how do you send it to them? It has to, it’s more p- uh, we do it on a personal basis.

Saul Markowitz: We don’t, we don’t just like blast it out. So we’re very good about, you know, “Hey, Jim,” I’m just making it up, Jim Smith from whatever publication it is. We’ll actually write a little note to him, “Hey, Jim, got something for you.” And it’s in the body of the email that, that they’re in- That’s where we put the stuff that really gets them going.

Saul Markowitz: So, um, we have this thing, yeah

Paul Benton: I’m hearing something important. PR is re- is relationship based and requires the ability to sell and persuade by the agent sitting in your chair, and is labor intensive. So it’s not like running a, uh, simply running a, um, PPC campaign at scale. It’s gumshoe work. You have to actually pick up the phone and hear a voice on the other end and persuade it of something.

Saul Markowitz: That’s the exciting part about it. It’s like, you know, we have this thing where we always, um, we like to meet two new people a day. That’s like our thing. We wanna meet two new people a day. I don’t know where we’re gonna meet them. It could be in the elevator, it could be as we’re pitching media. We never know.

Saul Markowitz: And so, and I’ll say, like I said this earlier, too, here’s the way it works. Okay, so early in the morning we all wake up. So as the reporter, we all do that. We’re with our families, hopefully we’re there. We go to work, get ready to get going. If I have a good story to tell, the reporter has the same thing. He want- He or she wants to go home, too.

Saul Markowitz: So our job is pitch them the story that we think they may be interested in. Don’t waste their time to pitch them something that, that you know is not the right… That brand is not gonna work for them. You’re not gonna pitch the sports reporter on this one. It’s not gonna happen, unless there’s sports in Langland.

Saul Markowitz: So that’s not gonna… So you call them on the phone at first. R- Say, you know, talk, give them a little bit of a pitch what it is. Hopefully they’re interested in saying, “Send me something.” Once they are interested in this, then it’s your job as a good PR person is to follow through. Keep calling, find out what else they need.

Saul Markowitz: Do you need another interview? What, what can I do to make sure that we can get this story done so you can go home to your family? That’s it. You know, they wanna, they’re looking for good work, too. They wanna get this stuff done. So don’t waste their time on it. Just, you know, you’re working now as a team to get this done.

Paul Benton: But that means you have to be selective of the clients you bring on because you can’t, you can’t push a non-story or a bad story, otherwise you’ll burn a bridge.

Saul Markowitz: The other thing, yeah, and we say in Pittsburgh, you know, this is a Pittsburgh thing, even though I’m a, I’m from Buffalo. I have to say that all the time, ’cause I have to say, “Go Bills,” ’cause I’m a Buffalonian.

Saul Markowitz: I have to say that. But anyway, but in Pittsburgh we always say, um, “We’re the city of bridges. Don’t burn any.” That’s our thing. Okay? Awesome. We’re the city of bridges. Don’t burn… So the moment that you lie to the media, the moment that you start… And the whole idea of people go, “Oh, spin. Spin this story.” I go, “Spinning means lying.”

Saul Markowitz: If you remember correctly, during the, uh, election time they have the, you know, debates. Going into the spin room. In other words, I’m going into a room where everyone’s just gonna lie to me. That’s all it is. And you know. So you know, there’s… I’m gonna say this ’cause there’s four good rules of PR, which I’ll kind of throw that out for the, for the heck of it.

Saul Markowitz: There’s four rules- Awesome … of really good PR, and we do a lot of crisis work, too, so. And this, and the number one rule is the most important one. So number one rule of good PR is tell the truth Not that difficult

Paul Benton: Right?

Saul Markowitz: Okay. Now, when I, after I tell you these four rules, I want you to watch the lo- watch the local or national news, and you’ll see how many people have s- have not done exactly what I’m saying right now.

Saul Markowitz: So number one is tell the truth. Number two is- Okay … never, never say, “No comment.” You know? You hear that a lot. So here, I’ll give you an example. There’s a guy coming out, a guy or a woman coming out of the, the, um, a courthouse. “Did you rob that, did you rob that store?” “No comment.” I guess he did. Okay. So, you know, that’s it.

Saul Markowitz: It’s not that difficult, okay? So never say, “No comment.” There’s ways of saying “no comment” without saying, “No comment,” but don’t do that, okay? The third rule is if you don’t know an a- if a media calls you on the phone and they ask you a question, and you’re, and the truth is I don’t know the whole answer to it, you don’t just give them an answer ’cause you think they need an answer right away.

Saul Markowitz: So just say to them, “I don’t have…” Tell them the truth. “I don’t…” I do it all the time. “I don’t have the full answer for that. Let me get back to you on that.” That’s it. Then the fourth rule is get back to them. That’s it. So those are the four rules of good PR. So- Follow through. Yeah, just follow through. And then the thing we do at the end of all this is when it’s all said and done, we like to call our media friends up and thank them for the story.

Saul Markowitz: That’s it. If it’s good or bad, whatever it is, as long as they were fair about it, and they were willing to look at both sides of the story, we’re cool with all that, but it’s not always gonna be great. You know, there’s those fallacies out there, and you, I’m sure you’ve all heard these.

Paul Benton: Mm-hmm. “

Saul Markowitz: Oh, as long as they spell my name correctly.”

Saul Markowitz: Really? Is that what you want? Okay. So in other words, you know, if you, if you did something really horrible in this world, like, “Yes, Mr. Manson, we spelled your name correctly.” Is that what you want? I mean, come on. You don’t want the bad stuff at all. And the other thing is, um, what was the other one people say too is, “As long as they spell my name correctly.”

Saul Markowitz: Oh, all news is good news. All good… Remember that one? Mm-hmm. All news- Mm-hmm. It’s so not true. You don’t want the bad news. You don’t want this… Now, some people, I’m not gonna mention any, some people are out there just want the power and be in the news. I get that, but you don’t want that. You want the positive stuff.

Saul Markowitz: You wanna be… They want people to look at your company, especially your brand, and go, “I, I, I’ve heard good things about this people.” You don’t want the one, “Oh, they just ripped somebody off” and then that’s a story. You want that one? “They just rip people off for the last five years.” So if you stay within those rules- You’re gonna be fine.

Saul Markowitz: Now if you go home and watch the news and go, “Yeah, they just lied. It’s over this time.” So we PR people, and I’m sure you, you as a marketer, you can see it in three seconds when someone’s making something up. You can see it in three seconds.

Paul Benton: We see it on the Sunday sh- Sunday, uh, shows all the time. All the time.

Paul Benton: And it makes you wonder if there’s little, there’s a little training that politicians go to. They’re asked a question and they answer a question they weren’t asked. Exactly. And it’s amazing that they are allowed to get away with it, and I suppose the reason for that is if they’re treated too roughly, they’re not gonna come back, so.

Saul Markowitz: And that’s fine. I would like a reporter finally, and it’s starting to happen a little bit now, is, um, ask them the, “You’re not telling me the truth. Tell me the truth. What’s going on here? Tell me the truth. What’s going…” Just to say it. Just say it. And then my favorite part is when they, when they show video.

Saul Markowitz: They say they didn’t say something, they go, “Was this you?” It’s like, “Hey, was that you?” It’s like… And then somehow they find a way to say that wasn’t them, which I think is the greatest thing. Or they’ll say it was AI. It’ll make it up. Whatever it is, they’ll just make something up. But if you just tell the truth, it ends so quickly.

Saul Markowitz: You have no… ‘Cause, you know, I tell on the crisis side, we’ve had people, you know, I’ll go in to, to visit, you know, when someone calls us to do some crisis work. I can’t mention, there’s only one that I can talk about, but the, but the, when, uh, I’ll walk into the office and I’ll say, um, I’ll close the door and I’ll say, um, “So tell me what happened.”

Saul Markowitz: And then they’ll just lie to my face and I’ll say, “Okay, I’ll say it one more time. I’m a big boy. I can handle this. Now, what exactly did you do?” That’s how I do that. I go, “Come on. I’ve, I’ve heard things. Now just come on. Just tell me.” And then they’ll, they’ll s- they’ll start spin, you know, they start spinning me.

Saul Markowitz: I go, “What are you doing? Stop it.” I won’t take those accounts. If they, if they won’t tell me the truth, I refuse to do it. It’s it.

Paul Benton: Can you give an example without revealing, uh- No,

Saul Markowitz: no. No … too

Paul Benton: many, too many gory details?

Saul Markowitz: Yes.

Paul Benton: What’s an example that a plumbing company or a home service company might face in a crisis that will require your help?

Saul Markowitz: Well, they did a job on a building somewhere, right? And then suddenly they got this- Mm-hmm … huge flood happen. Like, they, it was a mistake. Maybe someone, one of their vendors, somebody they’re working along with, who knows, a contractor, I don’t know what it is, forgot to do something. It happens. You know, I’m not a plumbing guy, but you know.

Saul Markowitz: And, uh, and the media, you know, it, it turns out to be a huge story where, uh, some building is completely flooded out and y- they found out who the, who the, the, uh, the plumber was that actually did the plumbing in the building before it opened, and it turns out to be your company. Well, you’re gonna hear about it.

Saul Markowitz: The media’s gonna call you and ask you, “What did you guys do? Was that you?” And the moment you’ll say to them, “Oh, it’s, uh,” and then they see the paperwork, “But I see that it was…” So if you just answer them and either say, “Yes, it was a mistake, we…” Just tell them the truth. And they, it fix it. And we, there’s many times where we’ve had this happen with us where companies will come to us and they’ll say, “You know, we made a big mistake.

Saul Markowitz: We made a…” And, and really it’s falling on your sword, but doing it in a way where, you know, you’re not messing up your brand. And second, we never lie, so it’s just, you just have to, you know, just say it. Get it over with. You know? The, the moment you lie to the media is when they’re saying… And I know, I have so many media friends who go, “They love that.

Saul Markowitz: They love when you lie to them,” because now they have a whole story to play with for the longest time. Well,

Paul Benton: to borrow a contemporary example-

Saul Markowitz: Right …

Paul Benton: say you’re a pool contractor-

Saul Markowitz: There you go … and you

Paul Benton: installed a large pool-

Saul Markowitz: And there is- … and the pool

Paul Benton: filled with al- algae

Saul Markowitz: Really …

Paul Benton: and, and you blamed vandals instead of owning, uh, the algae.

Paul Benton: That would be an example.

Saul Markowitz: I, I won’t mention any names, but the idea of, of a box cutter doing that, it’s my favorite thing. I like to picture someone cutting a pizza and going, “Yeah, I cut this.” You know it’s not true. We’re not that stupid. Come on, peop- Well, okay, some people believe it, I get that, but the truth always comes out.

Saul Markowitz: That’s annoying. You know, I’ve said this to clients all the time. It may not happen right away. It may not happen… It could happen years later. Somebody sitting in, in jail or at a bar one day, and they go, and they got a little some- too much in them, and they go, “Remember that guy that, uh, that, uh… He was actually a friend of mine.

Saul Markowitz: Let me show you something.” And that’s where it comes it al- it always does. And the, you have to remember, too- It always

Paul Benton: comes

Saul Markowitz: out … it always comes out. And the other part you have to remember, too, is that it used to be when, when we were younger, they had three TV stations, ABC, CBS, NBC nationally. That’s it.

Saul Markowitz: Now you have social media. Now you have everyone wants their 15 minutes of fame, so they’re gonna try to find the problem and then send it out through social media so this way they can be the first ones to say they saw it. They’re looking, every second they’re looking for that picture. What’s the video?

Saul Markowitz: What’s my video that I can send out that I can be famous for a few minutes? So you have to watch every move you… That’s why it’s, our job has become h- tougher, because if any of my clients are doing crap, someone’s gonna find it. Someone’s gonna figure it out, and they’re, it’s gonna be a video on TikTok or on, on, on, uh, X or whatever they call it, and then we’re gonna have to clean it up, so.

Paul Benton: I like the four rules and a ha- that the- It

Saul Markowitz: does work, yeah.

Paul Benton: It does work … there’s almost a golden rule. Yeah. Honesty. Um-

Saul Markowitz: Number one, tell

Paul Benton: the truth … let me, let’s take a s-

Saul Markowitz: That’s it …

Paul Benton: let’s take a step back. Um, what, uh… And, and, and put it back in the context of an ordinary plumbing company.

Saul Markowitz: Sure. Yeah.

Paul Benton: What, uh, what could an ordinary plumbing company do tomorrow?

Paul Benton: That might generate good, valuable local media coverage. So that plumbing company can, is asking itself, “Do I spend another, do I raise my Google PPC budget?”

Saul Markowitz: Anson. Yeah. “

Paul Benton: Do I put more money in Facebook, Yelp, or do I pursue, um, coverage in, in the local press?”

Saul Markowitz: Well, what I would do is I would try to find both.

Saul Markowitz: That’s the thing, I would try to figure out how to work both sides. I would not give up the, the digital advertising and all that other stuff. I wouldn’t do it. I would not give that up. If it’s being, if it’s still working- Okay … go for it, okay? If, if nothing’s working, then we can talk, okay? But if it’s, if that part of it, look at the stuff that’s actually working for you first.

Saul Markowitz: So if you’re working with people like Paul, you’re gonna know if it’s working right away. I know that for a fact. You know, he, he tells you straight up, “This is what’s gonna happen. This is what happened.” If it’s not working well, he’ll tell you, “We need to change some things.” Well- So you’re, you’re the honest one

Paul Benton: well, I-

Saul Markowitz: You’re the good one, so.

Paul Benton: I, I want you to answer, but I wanna add- Yeah … some context here. Yeah. The, the, the, there is a concept that I like to say, uh, that needs to be in its own swim lane. Lead generation-

Saul Markowitz: Yeah …

Paul Benton: is what most plumbing companies think of first- Yeah … which is harvesting the existing demand in Google- Makes sense

Paul Benton: and Yelp. Yeah. People who need a plumber today. The problem with that is, is that it is a almost like a machine that is sifting, um, all the top plumbers into ultimately price. Yeah. Everybody is competing- Smart … on good reviews.

Saul Markowitz: Yep.

Paul Benton: And then they’re leaving estimates, and then based upon, um, the best price and value of the estimate, everybody goes through an auction.

Paul Benton: The trouble with that is that it’s hard to really get your story out And that’s where you come in. So why do I wanna go to plumber A instead of plumber B when they both have 500 five-star reviews? Right. Why do I pick one over the other, other than price?

Saul Markowitz: Okay.

Paul Benton: Um, there has to be a better way, and that’s- Yeah

Paul Benton: p- perhaps PR. So how would that, how would A in a local community get in the press tomorrow to beat B?

Saul Markowitz: Well, what I would do is, it, it’s, we, we’ve told this to our national clients too. You have to break into whatever community you’re going to. Cer- you know, we do work for Cirque du Soleil. When they come to Pittsburgh, one of the first things we said to them was, “You have to be a part of our community.

Saul Markowitz: You have to do something. You can’t just be coming in from out of town and selling tickets and doing a show. You gotta be a part…” Same thing we did with, you know, Burns & Scale for years. They’ve done so much with veterans and, and now we’re just telling their story. I mean, we’re telling… So plumber, same idea.

Saul Markowitz: And I’m actually friends with a, a plumber that I’ve been with for years actually. And the idea there is, is are, are you, uh, are you a coach on a softball team for kids? Are you d- what are you doing in your community? You know, um, we did that with a, with a law firm years ago. They hired us, this was a long time ago, trying to change their image of lawyers, right?

Saul Markowitz: You know, uh, uh, they’re not ambulance chase. What are they doing? And one of the things we did for them was the advertisement was all about, um, what they do in the community. It wasn’t even about them doing a case. It was like, “Did you know that this attorney actually is the softball coach of…” And people wanna support people like that.

Saul Markowitz: That’s, that’s how it works. They wanna support an organization or a plumber or a roofer that does good things for the community. So what are you working on, guys? What are you do- or is there a certain project you just worked on that you think… Like I always, I always ask that question. Was it, was there a, a, like we just heard a story about a 90-year-old woman that, that, that, that actually, that Burns actually helped her with her roof.

Saul Markowitz: This is the third time in, in the, in their 70 years that they, she keeps coming back to them to do work. So I love the idea of, of helping someone in the community. You’re looking for that human interesty angle to it. And so, or the other thing too is the, the, the, one of the greatest stories you can do anywhere is there’s two of them.

Saul Markowitz: One is the first of something. So are you a plumbing company that’s doing something that no other plumber is doing? Like you’ve created something, and I don’t know what that is, but you’ve created some way of fixing something that no one pa- And then the other one is a trend story So if you can create a trend, right?

Saul Markowitz: Like it turns out that in the, in the plumbing world, the trend is that you don’t ha- you really don’t have to fix this thing every other… Like, I don’t know, the wire heater does, whatever, it doesn’t matter what it is, but something. Create a trend that, um, or plumbers are all kind of coming together and they’re creating a group.

Saul Markowitz: I wouldn’t … But you wanna be the first of, ’cause the one thing we also learned too is, and I tell this to clients all the time is, nobody cares about the person who … They always care about the person who, who’s first in line. I say it as a Bills fan. You know, we’ve lost four Super Bowls. They don’t care about number two.

Saul Markowitz: They care about who won the Super Bowl. It’s the same thing with, with clients. If you created something or an idea and you came out of the box first with it, if someone behind you does the same thing, you go, “Wasn’t that the same thing that, uh, Paul did?” That, that’s what you want. You wanna be the first of something.

Saul Markowitz: So if you can create some- something that adds to your brand. So there it is. First of something, and then a trend. And trend stories are the great, media loves trend stories. Big fan of the trend stories. So, um-

Paul Benton: There’s a good mental map to, to think about that’s relevant here, which is it, is it best to be the

Paul Benton: I- is, is the goal to be the best in the marketplace, or is the goal to be the most different in the marketplace? It’s, yeah, I think- ‘Cause you can only have one You can only have one person who’s the best.

Saul Markowitz.: Right.

Paul Benton: And that’s really hard to maintain. But it- but if you are, if you are the most differentiated, that’s…

Paul Benton: So if you, if you spend time on developing your community stories and the, and you only have 500 Google reviews, but your main competitor has 1,200 Google reviews and doesn’t, that’s your way in, so goes the argument.

Saul Markowitz: That’s the whole idea here. You don’t need a lot of stuff. Mm-hmm. You need some good stuff.

Saul Markowitz: That’s, and we ex- I said it to a client recently, I would rather have a really good USA Today story or, right, than, uh, 20 stories in the middle of the night somewhere. Or like same thing with the ad- on the advertising side. You have to know who is your, w- you know, you know, what’s your demo, you know? D- I, I just told this to someone yesterday.

Saul Markowitz: I said, um, you know, when we would do, when we, when we would have accounts and we’re doing media buying, we have an account, when Oprah Winfrey was on T- when Oprah was on TV, you knew that was, her audience were women mainly. You knew that. Her ads were much more- Mm … expensive. But I would rather buy one ad during her show to reach out to women than buy 100 middle-of-the-night cable spots that no one’s gonna see, right?

Saul Markowitz: But then other agencies will say, “Well, we got the- Right … 100 more spots.” Yeah, but you didn’t target it. That’s the point. So when you, when you’re coming out of the box with this stuff, the one thing you don’t wanna say is that you’re the best of anything, because no one is gonna believe you. So you don’t want, you want other people to say you’re the best of something.

Saul Markowitz: So use reviews that peop- real reviews of real people who’ve told them how great you are. Those are the things you should be using to promote your company, not, not the, uh, the president of the company saying, “I’m the best one.” The, the, use a little bit of that, and then p- you know.

Paul Benton: Say I’m a plumbing company and I’ve got a- Yeah

Paul Benton: I’ve got a correctly sized budget. Yeah. I’m spending perhaps 10% of my gross revenue on marketing.

Saul Markowitz.: Yeah.

Paul Benton: Um, and now I want to really, uh, increase my performance overall. Um, what, how much should I be spending on PR? If I’m spending 10% of my gross revenue on, um, marketing, what percentage should I be spending on PR?

Paul Benton: And then the knock-on question is, how do I measure whether my PR investment is actually working?

Saul Markowitz: That’s always, see that’s always the kind of the tough thing. You know, we’ve, it’s always been like between like 2 and 4% of your budget usually. You know, that’s how it usually kind of works. And, um-

Paul Benton: PR.

Saul Markowitz: Yeah, on the PR side.

Paul Benton: Uh, b- two, 2 and 4% of the marketing budget or 2 to 4% of gross revenue?

Saul Markowitz: It should be the marketing budget, so.

Paul Benton: Okay. So if I, so if my marketing budget hypothetically is, uh, is, is $100,000 a month, I should be spending around $4,000 a month on PR. Is that fair?

Saul Markowitz: That’s it.

Paul Benton: Okay.

Saul Markowitz: And that’s, yeah.

Paul Benton: How do I measure my PR?

Saul Markowitz: Yeah. That, that, no, it’s a … I, I hear this question all the time, so, so here, here’s the one thing. No legitimate PR agency will ever guarantee anything. Just so you know that. You can’t. ‘Cause you … And I’ll give you an example real quickly. So, but we were able to get, so we opened, uh, nine Krispy Kreme locations.

Saul Markowitz: Okay? We were brought in by, you know, the franchisee of Krisp- in Pittsburgh, and, uh, we kicked it pretty hard. You know, we came up with some new ideas. First one in line gets a free year of Krispy. It was this whole big … And the PR was crazy. But we opened at 5:30 in the morning, okay? We had over two-hour waits, people were there.

Saul Markowitz: By 9:00, uh, the planes hit the, the World Trade Center. See what I’m saying? Did we- No, yes … so we, we opened on 9/11, 2001. Okay? The story stopped. Bad

Speaker: timing.

Saul Markowitz: No, no. But the sto- but you don’t know then the timing. Mm-hmm. That’s what I’m saying. We don’t know the timing. So what I’m saying is, you- no PR agent, we don’t know what the news cycle’s gonna be that far out.

Saul Markowitz: We have no… But other things ha- look, you know, God forbid something bad, o- other stuff happens, we don’t know. What you’re hiring PR people to do is it’s not just about media relations, it’s about b- coming up with a strategic plan to get the word out, too. Working along with your marketing people, too. So writing stuff and putting materials together, making sure you’re sending out the right stuff, and then trying to get some media.

Saul Markowitz: So I don’t want people thinking PR is just media relations. It’s strategic communications. And so it’s not a one-time deal. You know, that’s why most of our clients put us on retainer, because we’re always kinda coming up with different ways of promoting y’all. Like, like finding what’s happening in the city to, like, what, what’s the big event coming up soon?

Saul Markowitz: What’s going? How do we tie ourselves into that? Or if your media buying team, your market is buying some advertising on TV, how do we, we will come in and negotiate on air. Like, we like to put our, our client on air once a month to talk about, that’s all added value. We’re really good at throwing the added value into stuff that…

Saul Markowitz: So that’s the whole… So it, n- and I’ll say that no legitimate PR agency will ever guarantee, but we do everything possible to make it happen. That’s the thing. Because I, you can’t, we don’t know, we have absolutely no idea what’s happening in, in the news cycle. And even now, it’s like every five seconds there’s something else going on, you know?

Saul Markowitz: And so we will try. But the other thing is if, whatever the news cycle is, and I’ll give you, I’ll give you an example. So PetSmart. So we did, we were the national PR firm for PetSmart. And one, one thing we did for them is we helped, um, uh, we called it smartifying their PR. The idea there is wa- a- and I’m gonna say that to the plumbers, too.

Saul Markowitz: We wanna make the people who work for the PetSmart stores, uh, experts, pet experts. So when the media’s looking for a story to do, to do for them, to do about pets, doesn’t matter what it is, about goldfi- uh, we will make sure, we made sure to send information out to all the major pet reporters around the country, including everything from, uh, GMA, to Fox and Friends, whoever it was, and we would, we sent them stuff to r- when they were sitting there going, “We wanna do a story about goldfish,” or whatever it is, they go, “PetSmart.

Saul Markowitz: Ooh, PetSmart.” And so they, they do that. Good. It’s like, so we would get calls from CBS and say, “We’re doing a story tomorrow about something.” Or if there was a flood that happened, a lot of the flooding happening around the country or a big storm, well, okay, what are you gonna do with your pets? We would be the first ones they would call.

Saul Markowitz: They’d go, “What, what advice would you give us to tell people do for their pets before the storm?” Same thing with plumber. Wouldn’t it be that we, uh, if you can get your plumbing company to be the expert You know, that the media knows. One thing we would do, we’d go in right away and say, “We’re doing work for this plumbing company right now in, in this city.”

Saul Markowitz: We would go to all the TV stations, all the print, all the major media, and say, “If anything ever happens that you need somebody to talk about plumbing, come to us first.” And that’s what was happening. We worked so hard with their amazing staff at Petsmart, but they, the media just would call us and say, “There was a big flood somewhere.

Saul Markowitz: You know, they’re, you know, some people are missing their pets. What, what should they do? What’s gonna…” And we would, we would find that we trained different experts around the country in different parts of the country. We had some guy in New York. We had some, one guy in LA. We had… So whatever part of the country it was, we were able to use that person to actually go on TV, and they were all media trained too.

Saul Markowitz: So, so it, it… And that’s what we’re doing with the roofing company, and we do it with all of our clients. We do media training upfront. We do a lot of media training just to let, so in case there is something that, that happens, if a media person does call, you don’t have to handle it yourself. You say, “Call my agency.”

Saul Markowitz: They give us a call, and then we decide if it’s worth doing or are they just trying to sell you an ad, which happens a lot too, you know. ‘Cause there is a lot of pay for play these days too, but you know, we just make sure that it’s a legitimate call, and if it is, then we would then tell the client, “Here’s what they want,” and then we would make sure that, uh, that they’re getting, you know, the right, uh, talking points and everything else that they need to make the story happen.

Saul Markowitz: So there’s a lot that can be done.

Paul Benton: Saul, as we, as we come to a close here- This was

Saul Markowitz: fun. Yeah …

Paul Benton: um, let me, let me ask two questions. Sure. One is, um, if a plumbing company sets all, “I have $25,000- Yeah … to invest in PR in the year 2027.”

Saul Markowitz: Yeah.

Paul Benton: How would you allocate roughly, where would you put that money? W- w- where w- what would you prioritize the spend of that money?

Paul Benton: Is it… Tell us.

Saul Markowitz: What I would think of it, I always actually think of it as a, as the, the first year, usually the s- first six months of a new campaign that we’re working on, is always think the, the first year is always the year of awareness. First thing out of the box is aware. Like, if nobody really knows about the company, it’s our job to work along either ourselves or with a team of market, whatever, whoever it is, to, to create the brand.

Saul Markowitz: What is your brand? What can we do to change the brand? How does your website look? How does your social media work? How does it… We wanna make sure the whole team is together. So it takes a little time to, you know, we, we actually start working on press materials early on, where we’ll create, you know, backgrounders on the company.

Saul Markowitz: And the other thing we do early on is we, we’ll do so many phone calls with these people trying to figure out what the stories are. Like, I don’t know what they are yet. But I’d say we always find the story. Always find the story. And our thing is always find the story that no one’s ever thought of before.

Saul Markowitz: That’s… We love that kind of stuff. Now let’s create something. So I would take the first budget, you know, we, I tell you, we actually, you know, people pay us because of our experience, so we, you know, we’re on retainer for most of our clients. So, so that’s, you’re paying us for e- for the experience and to help put all this stuff together.

Saul Markowitz: Uh, I would take a look and see if, is it worthy of, um, um, if they’re j- if they’re like, if we’re putting aside 25 for the PR side, what are you using for advertising? What’s that other budget? Like, how can we take the other budget that you have and, and use that more wisely too? Or talk to the team that’s actually doing the advertising side and say, “How can we combine our efforts to make this thing work too?”

Saul Markowitz: It could be a, a grand opening of something. It can be, uh, you know, I, I don’t know. It would, you know, it would be very s- all I can tell you, early on you wanna be very, very strategic. ‘Cause here’s the thing, you have one chance to do it right. One. That’s it. One chance.

Paul Benton: So is it fair in your professional opinion that, uh, that the marketing effort, this is what a- marketing agencies- Yes

Paul Benton: generally do- Yeah … is execute- In-channel performance, so- Yeah … uh, for example, PPC campaigns and Google-

Saul Markowitz.: Yeah …

Paul Benton: and social media campaigns, it’s the execution. But what you do on the PR side is developing the story and the brand and the events. Yeah. That it’s the ammunition that, um, then the marketers use. Is that fair?

Paul Benton: Is that a fair summary?

Saul Markowitz: You’ll get more done if you work as a team than working separately. That’s it. And so I mean, that, that, that was always a, a big mistake years ago when I started out in this business that, you know, I told you, market- back to, we’re going full circle now. The marketing director would be in one office on one floor.

Saul Markowitz: The PR person would be on another floor doing their thing, you know, and, and it didn’t make any… Even development would be somewhere else, and group sales would be somewhere else. And, uh, and what works really well is if you get into a room together and you go, “This is how much we have to play with.” Mm-hmm.

Saul Markowitz: Okay? The budget, budgets aren’t going up anymore, so this is what, what we have to play with, and this is… And then we talk to the, to the owners, whoever, you know, if it’s, I do work for the Pittsburgh Zoo, and, and we sit down constantly talking about what’s the next step, what are we gonna… But if you can find that one great story to start out with, you know?

Saul Markowitz: And I’ll say it again, it all comes down to our goal is to get people to make that phone call to your plumbing company, and when you pick up the phone, I can’t sell it. That’s your job. You know, we’re gonna, we’re gonna, you’ll have the ammunition to play with it, but it’s your… And it’s not my job to go into that house or the business.

Saul Markowitz: And if, if something goes wrong, it’s not my f- you see, that’s the thing. We’ll get them to you, and you gotta keep them. That’s it. That’s how it works, right?

Paul Benton: That’s a good a- that’s a, that’s a good answer, and let’s end on this note. So you, you’ve been doing this for-

Saul Markowitz: A long time …

Paul Benton: several years.

Saul Markowitz: And- A long time

Saul Markowitz: you want it in dog years, or you want it regular? What do you want?

Paul Benton: We’ll, we’ll, um- You have experience. Yes, I do. You have, you have a Yoda, a Yoda perspective. Oh.

Saul Markowitz: Yeah, here I am.

Paul Benton: Yeah. What is, what is the, um… You’re like Baby Yoda.

Saul Markowitz: I

Paul Benton: am.

Saul Markowitz: Um- Thank you.

Paul Benton: Appreciate that … Grogu.

Saul Markowitz: I’m a big Star Wars

Saul Markowitz: fan, so

Saul Markowitz: I’m good. Um,

Paul Benton: after, after your long, um, uh, set of experience, what do you still say is the biggest misconce- conception that any business owner has about PR?

Paul Benton: What’s the, what’s the one you are finding you need to, you’re confronting all the time that would be helpful to understand?

Saul Markowitz: Everyone thinks they can do it So they, yeah, they can just do it themselves. They can just do it. They don’t… Some people don’t realize how str- the way that, that it’s very strategic.

Saul Markowitz: Okay? I always say- Mm-hmm … there’s a reason behind the madness. It’s a great, that’s a great saying, right? There’s… It may sound like we’re just making this stuff. We’re not making it up. This is all stuff that we’ve done in the past, and it may sound like, like, you know, we do a lot of creative stuff. Like we cr- you know, we do a lot of theater stuff.

Saul Markowitz: Mm. You know, we w- we do a lot of shows and theaters, and we’re always creating new things on how to sell things that have been sold before. And now we have to find ways of getting people interested in it again. So people, “Oh, that… Aaron’s making that.” No, we’re not just making it up. There’s a reason behind the madness.

Saul Markowitz: We ha- we have an idea of what we know in our minds, we know that through our experience, that this could work. It’s go- and don’t be afraid to try new things all the time. You know, that’s the thing. Just because, you know, uh, like I used to have a client just s- when I worked for a certain place, I had a boss who said to me, “Call Cleveland and find out how they did it.”

Saul Markowitz: And I used to say to him, “Let’s have Cleveland call me, and I’ll tell them how we did it.” He said, “That’s it. Let us be the f- that’s-” Mm-hmm. Back to the trend again. Let’s create something and other people copy us. Let there be plumbers and roofers and, and theater companies all over the country going, “What did they just do there?

Saul Markowitz: That was awesome. Look at this, look at that. I should have thought of that myself.” You know, those, you know those moments, Paul, where you go, “Damn, why didn’t I think of that?” Right? The whole idea. Yeah. We should be the ones that… We’re, we’re the ones that should think of it first. There, y- the… Never be afraid.

Paul Benton: A lot of, a lot of people invented the, a lot of people invented the seatbelt, but

Saul Markowitz: only- See, that’s

Paul Benton: another one …

Saul Markowitz: only

Paul Benton: one person

Saul Markowitz: invented

Paul Benton: it

Saul Markowitz: first One of my favorite

Paul Benton: ones.

Saul Markowitz: Who is the person who thought of bottled water? Anyways, that’s, you know, my parents are no longer with us, but they came from Europe, and like if only we would’ve…

Saul Markowitz: We’d drink out of a hose instead, but why didn’t we think of putting water in a bottle and selling it? You know, it’s like, well, c- come on, people. You know? So just be creative in this world. Be creative, and let people who understand how to do this stuff, let, let them do our thing. Let’s just have fun with it.

Saul Markowitz: You know, this is not… You know, it’s, you know, we’re all trying to, we’re all trying to make a living. We’re all trying to do good work. We’re not trying to hurt anybody. That’s it. Just do good thing, and then give back. You know? Give back to your community. Do good things for people. And that’s it. I don’t know.

Saul Markowitz: Mm-hmm. That’s all I got, you know? And, and for some silly reason- That’s awesome … I still love doing this stuff, and I don’t know why. My wife goes, “You still like it, don’t you?” I go, “I don’t know why, but I do.” I just love ’cause it keeps your mind going. You know, it just keeps your-

Paul Benton: Well- …

Saul Markowitz: your mind getting a little nutty.

Saul Markowitz: It’s fun.

Paul Benton: Saul Markowitz, Markowitz Communications. That’s a good note to end on. Thank you for being at the table here. We will see everybody on the next episode of the Plumber Marketing Success podcast. Thank you, Saul.

Saul Markowitz: Nice to see everyone.